For today’s show, we have DJ Rob taking a request from our faithful reader Erich. The question reads like this:
“I’d like to suggest a future blog post for you GK and Rob to discuss. The differences you’ve noticed between a woman that needs to be pursued for a longer period of time before she agrees to go out, versus a woman who’s just stringing a guy along and is unwilling to vocalize she’s not interested.
Recently I talked to a buddy of mine at work who’s good with women. He got married to a coworker a year ago who he says he pursued to go out for ten months before she finally agreed. He said he thinks the long wait had something to do with her not being really broken up with her ex at the time but still, if it had been me I would have given up after a month.”
ROB: Hi Erich, good question. The question is about pursuit. And, looking a bit ahead (and maybe reading into your question), a pursuit ends once you’ve gotten whatever you’re going after. In your question, it’s about getting the girl to agree to a date with you; and if she won’t initially commit, how long should you spend your time trying to get her to go out with you.
I’ll be honest, I don’t like asking girls out. It’s awkward. It also puts social pressure on them.
Dude: “Would you like to have dinner with me?”
It’s like you’re saying: “Either you will date me or you will not date me. There can be no gray area.”
It’s like you’re telling them to choose. Choose. CHOOSE. It becomes forced. I hate that. It just gives me that ick feeling. It’s like a guy that doesn’t know any better will spend his entire life acting like he’s trying to lock down a prom date. Ya know, either she’ll go to prom with you or she won’t. There is no in-between.
I’m a huge fan of living life on the in-between. Think of it as staying on the radar. Attractive women are constantly dating someone or breaking up with someone. Very, very very rarely will you meet one at the perfect moment where she is single with no other interruptions and available to date when you are.
So instead you should constantly flirt, constantly show that you’re interested. (Yes, that can sound scary to guys who like to play their cards close to their chest. But we all know that doing so is a defense mechanism aimed at protecting their ego, so we get past it and do the right thing anyway).
So instead of asking every girl you like to prom (forcing them to either date you or not date you) you should flirt with no expectations other than staying on the radar. I highly recommend casually dating multiple people at once so you don’t get needy and start thinking that you need to date THIS ONE GIRL RIGHT NOW.
Being on the radar means that you are not friends. You all know that I don’t believe that guys and girls can be friends because one is just using the other for something. (Insert story about how your cousin’s friend’s brother is friends with a girl and totally happy. Bullshit, he was trying to sleep with her, screwed up somewhere, and now he’s just a friend.)
Once again, it’s all about being on the in-between. You should be somewhere in-between being friends and dating. Like, you’re flirty, so you’re more than friends, but you’re not exclusively dating, so you’re not BF and GF. It’s like the fuckbuddy zone.
And it’s a fun place to be. You can hang out there for a long time. One month, 10 months, hang out as long as you’re having fun.
So the takeaway is this: if you don’t put a girl in the position where she has to choose to either date you or not date you, then you don’t have to worry about pursuit, and then dating becomes fun again because there’s no pressure on either side. And since you’re staying on the radar, you can jump in when the time is right. And it will be eventually. And when there’s a boyfriend involved, just remember that you don’t always have to be number one right now. Stay on the radar and one day that guy will screw up and you’re next in line.
{ 10 comments… read them below or add one }
Just to add my 2 cents, I did touch on handling women with boyfriends a couple of years ago: http://www.gkdating.com/?p=355
So how do you word it when you want to see someone again or am I touching on things I have no reason to touch on?
No it’s a good question. If a girl wants you around she’ll let you know. It can be blatant like asking you if you want to hang out, or it can be something really subtle like just making herself available. In that case you have to take the lead and tell her you want to see her again.
I guess the point is to not spend too much energy or get yourself too involved chasing a girl until she decides she wants to be chased by you.
I really liked this article, good stuff. So very true that girls hate to be forced to choose and that attractive women are almost never single.
However, Rob didn’t answer the whole question: “…versus a woman who’s just stringing a guy along and is unwilling to vocalize she’s not interested.”
I’ll venture an answer to that part myself as I currently have an on-the-radar girl and in the past I’ve experienced a stringing-along girl. I’d say that if you are able to successfully maintain a flirty vibe with her (i.e. she is playing along) AND you are able to drop the occasional SOI without eliciting any negative reaction, then you are on-the-radar. At some level she is interested, and in the right circumstances something could happen.
There is no stringing along because both of you are equally investing time/money/energy into the on-the-radar relationship and you are having fun along the way.
Also, I avoid doing real friend things with my on-the-radar girl like talk about her problems or help her move. Our relationship is all about “dating light,” fun activities – drinks, parties, concerts.
I hate to say this, but my question was geared towards women who profess to be single….and to make matters worse I think I answered my own question with advice you guys gave me awhile ago. Oops. Basically ask a girl out three times and if she doesn’t agree, put the ball in her court and possibly move on.
Thanks Rob and GK for the words of wisdom though.
That’s OK if you answered your own question, Erich; Rob and I will take credit anyway.
I actually think Rob’s post applies whether she’s single or not. If you want to give her three strikes, go with that. We all have a different tolerance of ambiguity.
SCN: I think your answer to the “stringing along” question is a good one. I don’t think there’s any 100 percent way to know if she’s game to be pursued, but as Dirk would say, if she likes you she’ll see you and if she doesn’t she won’t. As long as she hangs out with you and isn’t reacting negatively to your flirting, I’d say there’s a chance.
I’m really interested in this article. I have to say I’m not very comfortable with ambiguity, and I believe it costs me. I like to say “This is how I feel. This is what I want. What about you?” but admit that it doesn’t work great. I think it kills things before they get a chance to grow. Even though I’ve known this for quite some time, I still can’t quite put my finger on why I don’t like the ambiguity…. One of my reasons is that I don’t want to be thinking about a girl if she’s not interested. Another is that it feels a bit like hiding a part of myself, by trying to seem not ‘too interested too soon’. I equate being able to say how I feel and what I want with being myself. (I’m not sure if this is the real reason but it’s how I feel.) Any thoughts welcome.
I completely understand. Some people would just rather say exactly what’s on their mind. There’s definitely a time and place for that. At the same time, doing so puts you and her into finite “dating or not dating” zones. And that can end up quenching out possibilities. I think it’s an easy fix to say “this is what I want today, what about you today?” Not actually say it, but you know what I mean. Keeping doors open.
Barry:
I don’t see any ambiguity if she clearly likes me but her life/relationship situation prevent her from exploring that right now. That’s a very different thing than ambiguity about whether she likes me at all – that must be sorted out during the first meeting.
Also, cut the “What about you?” part. Girls often become interested only in response to a guy’s interest in them. I’d develop the courage to let your interest flag fly and flutter in the breeze without needing or expecting anything back from her. This is also necessary to remain on a girl’s radar.
I met a girl at a furniture store party last week, 2 minutes later told her I was attracted to her, and 30 minutes later was kissing her. Didn’t ask nor care how she felt about me. Her behavioral responses to my declarations of how I felt about her gave me all the feedback I needed.
Thanks for the reponses Rob and scn.
Perhaps I have been confusing things a bit. I can see now that showing interest and asking for a decision are two different things.